Pre-Restoration Archival Methods

Hello everyone:

About a year or so ago we had a thread going in regards to methods we could use to archive our pre-restored recording projects, so that in the future as the DC Lines of products improve, we could re-restore (ha! what a word) our projects for even more satisfactory results.

At the time we really didn't come with a really good solution. Does anybody have any ideas?

As some of you know, I am a former DJ and have approximately 5,000 or so LP's I'm in the process of restoring and I would like to find a way that is somewhat space effecient and fairly safe at least in the near long term.

I've been burning 2 versions of my recordings; one restored and one unrestored for the future, but the CD's are beginning to pile up and wondered if there may be a better alternative.

Thanks and Regards,

Geebster

[Craig Maier]

Perhaps Data DVD's would save space if that is one of the issues. I think that they hold about 4 Gigabytes of data which is about 5 X as much as a conventional CD. I guess the only downside to this method is that if the disc becomes corrupted, you loose 5 X as much as you would if one CD became corrupted. Hmmm - always a tradeoff with these things. Also, I am not sure about the long term reliability of DVD R's. Does anyone have any information on this?

[DJBohn]

Hello Geebster,
I like Craig thought about DVD storage and its Data longevity. I also thought about using a very large slave hard drive, but that wouldn't take very long to fill up with wav. files, especially if you are recording them at 24/96. There is another thought. Monkeys Audio Compression. It will reduce the wav. to about 50% of the original file. The designers of the program claim that when you re-expanded the Monkeys Audio file back to a wav., it is said to be bit-for-bit identical to the original wav. file. This program though may be limited to 16/44.1. Hope this helps. Good luck!

[Geebster]

Monkeys Audio Compression. It will reduce the wav. to about 50% of the original file. The designers of the program claim that when you re-expanded the Monkeys Audio file back to a wav., it is said to be bit-for-bit identical to the original wav. file.

Yes, we discussed Monkey's Audio during last year's thread and Craig and others dismissed this program (and rightly so) because if the maker's of Monkey's Audio change the product or choose not to support it any longer, you would be stuck with all that data that you couldn't convert back into .WAV.

Right now I've got a new external USB portable hard drive that I'm using to store my un-restored audio files. It's fairly small (size of 2 packs of smokes) and it's capacity is 200 GIG.

I guess I could just get multiple portable hard drives as they become full and maybe have a couple of spares for backups. I dunno. I guess there isn't a perfect solution to this problem.

Many thanks for your input...

Regards,

Geebster

P.S. At least in the case with my LP's, I've really haven't found too much benefit in recording them past 16 bit/44.1, because of their limited dynamic range and natural limits of 60's-80's vinyl source material. To my feeble ears 16/44.1 sounds fine to me.

[DougMac]

Further reading

Here's some discussion of storage:

http://www.it-enquirer.com/storage/optimedia.html
http://www.burningbits.com/artman/pu...ongevity.shtml
http://www.mitsuigold.com/technology.../longevity.htm
http://www.osta.org/technology/cdqa.htm

I, too wonder if there is a better alternative to CD-R. I have some doubts about DVD/R, and as Craig pointed out, when you put more eggs in one basket, you risk more eggs at once. Mitsui is regarded by many to be the best product available for archival storage. I checked their website and they tout 300 years for their CD-R Gold disk, but only 75 years for DVD.

I'm thinking if I can get a reliable 20 years out of my storage media, I'll be good to go. By then, there'll be newer and hopefully better storage solutions to which I'll migrate. Also by then I'll be so old I probably won't care! I'll be much more worried about the reliablilty of my Depends than my CD's ;-).

I've been storing my CD's in albums to help with the space issue, but from what I've read, storing them in cases is the best solution. Oh well. I hoarded Kodak Gold when I learned it was being discontinued. When it runs out (I still have 300), I'll switch to Mitsui Gold.

I'm fascinated by the volume of work you've got ahead of you. How are you triaging the task? I did a little math. If you copy one album a night every nigh of the year, it will take nearly 14 years! My wife, ever the optimist, tried to curb my 78 record acquisition rate by pointing out that I'll probably die before listening to the records I already own!

Speaking of storage problems, check this out: http://www.vintage78.com/siteCF/index.htm

Doug

[Geebster]

Yes, I can attest to Mitsui's products myself. I've used Mitsui Gold's for a couple of years now, without a single failure!!!

I agree with you and Craig thinking that DVD probably isn't the optimal way to go. More storage... more risk of more failures; and I've found that DVD's are much more touchy in regards to general failures anyway.

Back in the old days (pre-CD), I would archive many of my LP's onto VHS tapes and that system worked OK as far as any analogue medium could go, but in time repeated listenings would cause the tapes to finally lose fidelity.

I know I have a daunting task ahead of me, but what a way to spend 14 years!!! Ha Ha.

Luckily, most of my collection is pretty pristine. Only a minimal amounts of processing are necessary. I'm spending most of my time now restoring stuff that will probably forever be out of print. If I have an album that has been well used and is of something that is fairly easily available, I have been opting to get a replacement CD.

It's those special releases that I used to get at the radio station (unknown artists, bootlegs, live recordings, interviews) that I'm really concentrating on.

Regards,

Geebster

[Rick Barber]

One of the reasons I built a new computer was so I could add a SCSI adapter to it. Or it is my understanding that a USB 2 port will transfer data at a high rate also. My plan, when I can afford it, is to get a state of the art Tape drive such as an LTO-1 or 2, and SDLT or a DDS4. (LTO's and SDLT's are 8mm and DDS 4's are 4 mm) These types of tape drives can hold a lot of data, Sdlt's will go up to 600 gig compressed and 300 uncompressed, the LTO's go up to 400 gig-compressed and 200 uncompressed. That would allow me to store a very large amount of wave files on relatively few tapes. I don't know what the shelf life for these guys are but I would be it is substantial. And at some point in the future they could be transfered to a newer more reliable medium.
DDS3/4 4mm tape drives will store up to 72 gig compressed and 36 uncompressed. Drivers are available for windows 2000 and some drives are supported on XP. These types of tape drives are used by financial institutions for data back to support disaster recovery.
Anyway that is my idea.

[Geebster]

Or it is my understanding that a USB 2 port will transfer data at a high rate also.

How true!! My new little external hard drive is just as fast (or slightly faster) than my 2 internals.

So far, I think I'm going to like my little external hard drive for .WAV storage. It's a breeze to install/un-install and with a capacity of 200 Gig, I have quite a bit of room to fill up with my projects.

They are cheap enough to be affordable and as I need more room, I can get more of them.

Regards,

Geebster