Bad news from Shure...

[DJBohn]

While looking around on Google for a good price, I ran across some bad news that I need to pass on to everyone concerning DiamondCut users LP cartridge of choice, the Shure V15VxMR. This following quote is from a bulletin at the Shure web site:

"We regretfully announce discontinuation of our legendary V15VxMR audiophile phonograph cartridge due to scarcity of exotic materials essential in the manufacturing of the VN5xMR stylus. These materials are increasingly difficult and costly to obtain, and substitutions of those materials would compromise the performance standards expected of the V15VxMR.
In keeping with the tradition of the Shure phono line, we attempt to provide replacement styli for at least five years after a cartridge model is discontinued. This V15VxMR cartridge must be discontinued immediately so that remaining VN5xMR styli can be placed into our replacement parts inventory.
We strive to continue offering innovative audio products that provide outstanding performance and value, and apologize for any inconvenience that this may cause."

[Doug]

I wonder if it is more profit driven as a result of the cut of the diamond???

Just on another note, Craig/Rick Is there really any difference between a micro-ridge stylus as opposed to elliptical and likewise biradial??? - Sound Quality wise??? That is one thing I forgot to ask when discussing MC and MM cartridges.

[DJBohn]

Hey Doug, how you doing? Micro Ridge is actually nothing more than a Shure created name for a hyper-elliptical tip. I believe Empire called theirs a Stereohedron while other companies had their own names as well. Such diamond shapes I think were more common with CD-4 Quadradisc playback as it was thought they could resolve high frequencies easier.

I have an interresting magazine article mentioning a couple of MC cartridges (G.A.S. Sleeping Beauty and a cartridge from Denon) being compared with a high end Shure (M95 or M97ED - need to look up to make sure) which had some supprising results. The Shure frequency response dropped off sharply at not much more than about 25kHz, while the listed MC cartridges could resolve energy out to about 160kHz! (They were using cymbal crashes on a Sheffield Labs audiophile LP for the measurements) There was a trade off though - the MC cartridges mis-tracked easier than the Shure MM...

P.S. - Doug - check your E-mail - got some data for you!

[Doug]

Thanks Donald for the data. I also have always wondered what a micro-ridge stylus was - your info is kind of a supprise - but then I suppose it just needs to be a diamond that plays the groove of an LP.

Craig, can you add hyper-elliptical to the above list!

[Craig Maier]

Quoting Doug:

"...difference between a micro-ridge stylus as opposed to elliptical and likewise biradial???"

--------------------------------

The only thing that I know about your listing is that the "bi-radial" is different from the elliptical. That shape is designed for playing metal stampers. It is the inverse geometry of a pointed stylus, since it has to ride a bump in the record rather than a groove. Other than that, my familiarity with styli is limited to conical, eliptical and truncated versions of those. (A long time ago, there was something called the Shebata {sp?} stylus for playing encoded 4 track vinyl recordings in which there was a sub-carrier for the rear channels).

[Doug]

my familiarity with styli is limited to conical, eliptical and truncated versions of those

That's about as far as my knowledge goes to!

Donald, you'll have to tell us a little more - I thougt biradial was a cheeper version of elliptical in that it was near elliptical but not quite?

[Craig Maier]

Doug,

I checked on my reponse about biradial styli and found that I was correct. Biradial styli are those that "straddle" the bump on a metal stamper in order to play them. Obviously, they can not be used to play regular phonograph records (pressings) since they are mirror images of each other.

[gfpeek26]

Stylii

Hopefully I will be excused for jumping in here - just want to stir the pot a little -

quoting from a chapter by George Alexandrovich (at one time professional products manager for phonograph cartridge research at Stanton Magnetics) in Handbook For Sound Engineers - Disk Recording And Playback - regarding stylus tips -

in discussing metal stampers George mentions a Stanton Bi-pointed stylus - an illustration shows one seated on a metal stamper - used to test the stamper by playing it - it straddles the hill which corresponds to a groove on a phonograph record -

a little further along in the chapter in a section about stylus shapes there is a mention of a Fine-Line stylus - said to have a much longer contact area than the elliptical stylus but with the same scanning or tracking radius - ...Sometimes this type is known as a fine-line stylus, Shibata, biradial, or CD-4 type ...followed by quadrahedral, stereohedral, hyperelliptical, premanic, fine-line and others.

From this chapter, written by a specialist in the phono cartridge field, it's obvious there were many descriptive (and other) names dreamed up by the marketing guys to try to help sell their product - it appears that the same name was used for more than one type of stylus shape - and the same stylus shape was described by more than one name -

best,

George Peek

[Craig Maier]

George,

Thanks for the clarification. I had been not aware of the dual use of that term before - - - makes it a bit confusing.

[DJBohn]

Sorry guys, have not been at the site in a while - thanks gfpeek26 for verifying this. I was incorrect in one point, the Stereohedron "coin" for the fine line was ironicly used by Stanton and not Empire as I stated - Empire used a spherical tip in their EDR.9 cartridge.

Say Doug, I may have an answer as to why Shure has discontinued the V15. While looking on the Internet for some information on Yamaha DSP units, I ran across an article on a DSP theater setup using some Yamaha NS1000 main speakers that were originally sold for $699. The Yamaha rep stated that if these speakers were in production today, they would sell for more than $10,000! His reason being "You can't get the Beryllium for the domes, you know". Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Shure use Beryllium for the material in their V15 cantilevers? This may be part of the reason for the high cost. Interesting note: The B&O MMC cartridge I mentioned I had in the past utilized a solid Ruby for the cantilever - many in the industry thought was overkill...

[Craig Maier]

Although toxic in its oxide form, berrillium is one of the elements. So is lead, and pc boards are still made. Same with Lithium, Cadmium, etc. etc. etc. I am sure that G-d still has left a little bit of that stuff around for us to use. I wonder if that is the real problem?

[Doug]

not to upset anyone, but I think it is because the performance was not much better than the next model down (the M97 an elliptical with the same shell/cartridge and stylus mount) that cost 1/2 the price...

(that's not to upset you Donald, but the frequency response of both is flat from -20Hz to +24kHz etc) - The M97 has excellent tracking properties that are not far off the V15. I think most see the $$$ in the bottom line and go for the lesser model that works almost equaly as well.