Edison Record Questions

[DJBohn]

Hi Craig,
I've got a few questions concerning Edison discs.

1. Why do they call them "Diamond Discs? Is it because rather than using a paper labels like the other manufacturers, they etched the artwork and information into the shellac?

2. Is there any literature on Edison records anywhere so we can date our collections? I have 3 or 4 design variations on the discs, one of which uses paper labels. I was just curious if there was a dating guide somewhere we could use for them.

3. On my earlier Diamond Discs, they don't have a common record number on both sides, just their matrix numbers. But on another design variation, a record number was added. What I found odd about this series is rather than using the common A or B to denote the side (or a star on one side like some Decca records), Edison used L and R. (???) Was he predicting stereo in the future, or was this just a suggestion to help reduce listening fatigue? (R,R,R!)

[Craig Maier]

Hi,

I will try to answer your questions in order:

1. They were called Diamond Discs because the Edison player for them used a Diamond Stylus which was very unusual at that time. His competition used the lateral technique and steel needles which needed to be replaced after each playing of the record.

2. There are books out there on the subject of the Edison recordings. I do not own them, but I think that they were called something like "Edison Disc Artists and Records". I believe that the authors were Raymond Wile and Ronald Dethlefson. Perhaps you can find a copy of one of these books - - - there were two or three of them in the series.

I believe that the world class expert in the Edison recording discographical information is Ray Wile. I think that his telephone number is listed; he lives somewhere in New York City or one of the outer boroughs. He knows Rick and I if you decide to call him so you can mention our names.

3. Interesting question - - - I have no idea about that. Maybe someone else here knows the answer.

[Dan McDonald]

According to the Library of Congress's website:

"On the disc label, sides were indicated by "L" and "R", referring to the left side or the right side when stored vertically. The early disc issues contained the Edison trademark, Edison's image, the title of the selection, and the composer, all pressed into the glossy black surface of the disc using a half-tone electrotype. The early issues did not carry the artists' names, reflecting Edison's policy of not seeking out name acts, but supposedly relying on the quality of the music alone. In 1915, the artists' names began to be added to the labels. In 1921, black paper labels with white Roman type began to be used, and were changed at the end of 1923 to white labels."

I guess that means that there is a correct way to store these records vertically, or at least an intended way. I wonder if Edison was right- or left-handed?

For cylinders (even though you didn't ask) Allen Koenigsberg's Edison Cylinder Records, 1889-1912 is a great source. I am pretty sure it's still available through a web search, as my wife bought me a copy about 4 years ago.

Also found this on Tim Gracyk's website:

"You should look for a copy of the complete and accurate Index of Diamond Discs, which lists all of the thick discs made by Thomas A. Edison's company from 1912 to 1929. This book is about 300 pages (9 inches by 11 inches paper, spiral binding) and it lists every Diamond Disc issued. Thousands of titles are listed numerically, beginning with 50001 from 1912 ("Moonlight in Jungleland" and "Below the Mason-Dixon Line") through 52651, the last of the Diamond Discs issued in 1929 (this features Vaughn de Leath). Also in the index are the classical and semi-classical 80,000 and 82,000 records. Even the 57000 series (German), 58000 (French), 59000 (Scandinavian), etc. Demonstration, special purpose, and sample records are listed (for example, the rare "Holiday Greetings from the Bunch at Orange" with Edison's own voice--issued in 1924). Edison's rare lateral cut records are here, too. At the end of the book is an index of Edison's musical artists (this tells you which artists are on which Diamond Discs, useful information for any serious collector). Other information in the book: matrix numbers, date when the disc was issued, date when disc was deleted from the catalog. For example, Diamond Disc 50194, "He's a Rag Picker," sung by the Peerless Quartet, was available from October 1914 until June 1919--Billy Murray sings "California and You" on the reverse side. There is even an indication of which side was intended by the company to be the "A" side and "B" side (information not on all of the discs themselves--but the "R" means "right side," or "A" side, and "L" means "left side," or "B" side!). A wonderful yet elusive reference book--a nice index was added by someone (the original lacked this index), so this copy of the Diamond Disc book is actually more useful than the original from the 1970s."


Dan

[Craig Maier]

Thanks Dan. It is interesting. I am still a bit confused about how one determines left from right on a disc, but I am sure that there is something behind the logic. I learned something today.


Nonetheless, I went to our Diamond Disc collection today because curiosity got the best of me. I notice that the edge of some of the records have numbers embossed thereon and then filled with some material that is white in color. Maybe that explains how one orients the record in order to determine left and right hand sides. In other words, maybe you look at the numbers on the edge so that they are upright and not up side down. Then the side to the left of that orientation (bottom side of the lettering) would be L and visa versa. Just a guess.

[Dan McDonald]

I think your explanation about reading the numbers makes more sense than the R=A, L=B explanation. I don't think of Edison's discs as being 'hit' oriented, although maybe I'm just naive. The ones I have just seem to be songs that tend to "go together" for one reason or another. I have one with "Submarine Attack" and "K-K-K-Katy" although it doesn't have an L or R. I think they were just both topical with K-K-K-Katy popular with soldiers and Submarine Attack being a little patriotic 'play.'

Dan

[sandiegojohn]

My First Diamond Disc

Hi everyone! I just bought my first Edison Diamond Disc off of Ebay. Now, I now you're thinking I probably bought a junker, but I think it's pretty neat and I may have bought a pretty good one. Tell me what you think. I knew nothing about Diamond Discs but just happened to do an Ebay search for "Thomas Edison" and someone had a Diamond Disc for only $2, lol, with a $10 shipping charge. I did some Internet research about Diamond Discs, and I won't be surprised if the one I bought was played with a steel needle and won't play, but I'm guessing it's one of the early ones -- non-paper etched "label" and one of the artists is Will Oakland, who I understand was one of Edison's choices for his first roster of 1911. The Ebay link to my purchase is http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ayphotohosting. I probably payed more than it's worth, especially if it's too damaged to play, but is my research somewhat accurate? I'm guessing it's one of the earliest Diamond Discs, maybe around 1911? I'm still trying to find more info about this Disc. Oh, and why are there three hole-type areas on the label? They're not holes all the way through the Disc, but rather were maybe meant to hold the Disc in place? They're in a triangle formation. Thanks! I think I may have caught the "Edison Sounds" bug, ha!

[Doug]

Just looking at the photos - doesn't look to be in too bad condition.
Usually it is near impossible to play these things on a gramaphone because of their thickness. More often than not, the gramaphone head and arm are too low to the turntable platter to even get the gramaphone needle near an Edison disc sitting on the platter. (usually you cannot even swing the arm across because the record is too thick and in the way).

It should sound fine. Remember to use the L-R setting in DC.

[Craig Maier]

- - - and be sure never to play your Edison Diamond Disc on an acoustical, lateral cut (needle based) wind-up vintage gramophone. That would destroy it. Transfer it with a stereo phono cartridge and then follow Dougs suggestion.

[Dan McDonald]

also related to your research, Will Oakland was a major performer for Edison. I have some info at home that I'll try to post a little later.

Dan

[sandiegojohn]

Re: My First Edison Diamond Disc

Thanks to you all for the information about my first Diamond Disc. I've spent quite some time researching these items, and am pleasantly surprised there are forums where people chat about them!!

It would seem my Disc is circa 1917. I haven't received it in the mail yet, but I'm gonna guess it won't play -- maybe someone tried playing it on a Victrola. But it's just my first one, and over time I'll learn more details about them and will probably buy a nice one. I've also become fascinated with the many types of cylinders! I've caught the bug! lol

[Craig Maier]

To put your Edison Diamond Disc in historical perspective, the Edison Disc Phonograph was first shown publicly at the 5th Annual Convention for the National Association of Talking Machine Jobbers at Milwaukee, Wisconsin, on July 10th through the 13th, 1911. By 1912, Edison had three models for sale ranging in price from $150.00 to $250.00 which was quite expensive at that point in time. Discs sold for $1.15 to $4.25 depending on artist and material.

ps - We own a mahogony floor standing unit which is designated the model 250, "The Official Laboratory Model". After all these years, it still works just fine.

keywords: Edison Diamond Disc History