Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Diamond Disc Stylus Question

Collapse
X
Collapse
 
  • Page of 3
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
Previous 1 2 3 template Next
  • #1

    Diamond Disc Stylus Question

    Group,

    The subject of "what stylus to use" to play back the Edison Diamond Disc's has been brought up before. I have, though, I slightly different question.

    In the Diamond Cut User's guide (Nicely written, I might add), the stylus called out for the Diamond Disc's is 3.7 mil spherical or non-truncated conical stylus. This size of stylus is very close to the actual size used by Edison. From a drawing I found (Sketch dated June 28,1917 from Edison Laboratory), the diamond stylus has a 0.00375 to 0.0035 inch radius which then went at a 60 degree angle up. It appears that the Diamond Cut value is very close to that actually used.

    Question then, I have a Stanton 500.V3 that I want to use for Diamond Disc records...can I just order a Stylus that is the same as the actual Diamond Disc stylus used ? Is 3.7 mil a standard size ?

    Also, the Edison reproducer had the stylus vertical to the record surface. Does the slight angle with the Stanton Stylus cause a problem ?

    Regards,
    Marc
    Last edited by Craig Maier; 03-29-2019, 10:45 AM.
    Tags: diamond disc needle, diamond disc styli, diamond disc stylus
  • #2
    Hi Marc,

    When I purchased my Stanton 500 roughly 15 years ago, the Stanton company offered a wide array of styli at that time and I was able to purchase a stylus fitting the description that you mentioned for playing my Diamond Discs. I do not know (and I do not think) that their product offering today is as broad as it was back then. But it is possible that they still have the one that you want.

    Craig
    "Who put orange juice in my orange juice?" - - - William Claude Dukenfield

    Comment

    • #3
      Craig,

      Thanks for the reply. I checked with the Stanton customer support people, and they didn't have any information at all.

      I'll check with KABUSA also.

      The current stylus that I used for 78 restoration, the Stanton 500 with D5127 worked really good. On Diamond discs, the surface noise was very high and after reading all the posts on Diamond discs I figured that I 'm using the wrong stylus.

      By the way, I couldn't even find out the dimensions on the Stanton D5127 stylus when I called the Stanton company. I "think" that its 2.7 mil but I don't know if its spherical or not or truncated.

      Maybe I need to buy a high power microscope ?

      Regards,
      Marc

      Comment

      • #4
        I think KABUSA still stocks them for Stanton. At least I hope they do. I use Stanton also. I think last time I just called them because their website isn't the easiest to navigate.
        Dan McDonald

        Comment

        • #5
          Hi again -

          Besides using the correct stylus for Diamond Discs, it is important to transfer the record in stereo and then use the file converter filter to Stereo to Mono L-R to resolve the vertical vector of displacement. If you do not perform that process, the results will be very poor. Also, if you are using an RIAA preamp, you should use the VPA to remove the RIAA curve since most Diamond Discs were recorded acoustically (a few were electrical, but the turnover freq used is not known). (We do know the turnover freq used on Edison Electrical "thin cuts", however - - - I think we put that value in the users guide.)

          Craig
          Last edited by Craig Maier; 12-14-2009, 05:01 PM.
          "Who put orange juice in my orange juice?" - - - William Claude Dukenfield

          Comment

          • #6
            Group,

            I received some info from the people at Grado, the cartridge people. The information is that their stylus shape is "aspherical". I don't have any additional info, but it appears that there is a lot of engineering into the science of record playback.

            Regards,
            Marc

            Comment

            • #7
              Does "aspherical" just mean that there is some geometric deviation from spherical? In other words, could one describe an elliptical shape as "aspherical".
              "Who put orange juice in my orange juice?" - - - William Claude Dukenfield

              Comment

              • #8
                Craig,

                The technical support at Grado hasn't furnished any specific information. So far, the term "aspherical" was used along with the radius being 3 mil in an answer from them on their current products.

                I too was looking for the other dimensions for an aspherical shape, but, no luck.

                I believe that the term aspherical is specific and unique and that an elliptical shape would not be the correct term. A check on Wikepedia hows that aspherical refers to a shape used in optical lens with a radius and two other dimensions to describe it.

                ***Editorial Comment***

                I'm getting real frustrated in trying to get stylus/cartridge answers from today's manufacturors. It seems that the engineering into record technology has been forgotten. Older books like the Radiotron 4th edition were loaded with information...

                *** End of Editorial Comment***

                Regards,
                Marc

                Comment

                • #9
                  Marc,

                  I recall that there is a company by the name of "Expert Stylus" who may be able to help you. I will go and try to find it on the internet and get back on that.

                  Craig
                  "Who put orange juice in my orange juice?" - - - William Claude Dukenfield

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Expert Stylus

                    Hi Again,

                    Here is a link:

                    http://www.78tours.com/Expert_Stylus_Company.htm

                    It looks like they are located in the UK.

                    Here is their address:

                    Expert Stylus Company PO Box 3. Ashtead Surrey KT21 2QD Tel: 01372 276 604. Fax: 01372 276 147.

                    I did not see a direct link to a homepage for them.

                    Craig
                    Last edited by Craig Maier; 12-15-2009, 10:51 AM.
                    "Who put orange juice in my orange juice?" - - - William Claude Dukenfield

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Craig,

                      Thanks for the info. I checked with KABUSA and they do not stock any stylus currently for the Diamond Disc and Stanton cartridges. They said that they did in the past.

                      The person at KABUSA , though, was helpful in that he seemed to know a lot about stylii in general. Maybe he will carry them in the future.

                      I'll chase down the people at Expert Stylus next....

                      Regards,
                      Marc

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Diamond Disc Audio Examples

                        If you are interested in hearing the results that I obtain on Edison Diamond Discs using my setup (and Diamond Cut Software), check out this link:

                        http://www.diamondcut.de/cd_shop.html?id=53

                        Craig
                        "Who put orange juice in my orange juice?" - - - William Claude Dukenfield

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Craig,

                          I have your CD on the Diamond Cut discs...it's my reference for comparing my work against(Fox Trot Songs). I do notice, though, that there are some digital artifacts present as you must have used a previous version of DC software than DC7.

                          I did find a 3.75 mil stylus at Nauck's Vintage Records. The 3.75 mil is at the high end of size per the Edison Drawings, but it could be good with the worn diamond discs.

                          I believe that the only source making the special stylii is "expert" but it's not clear to me at all from their web site just how to order a part. I think that you really have to visit them, and a plane ticket would add too much to the cost !

                          Once I get the 3.75 mil stylus in, I'll respond on how it works.

                          Regards,
                          Marc

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Hi Marc,

                            Hmmmm - - - yeah, a plane ticket would add a tad to the overall cost - - - but it might make for a nice vacation. But, there must be a way to order a stylus from them via remote control. I have heard of people getting stylii from them here in the US. Maybe it is worth making a phone call or perhaps writing to them about it. I guess that I am just glad that I purchased a wide array of stylii when they were still commonly available roughly 15 years ago.

                            As for the restoration of the Edison Diamond Disc Foxtrots, that was done in 1999 using a Beta version of Diamond Cut Millennium, which is the oldest software product in our catalog. So, it was before we learned more about the artifact suppression CNF techniques that we used in later products. Artifact reduction and suppression is something that we have worked on during each software development process, so it gets better all the time.

                            Craig
                            "Who put orange juice in my orange juice?" - - - William Claude Dukenfield

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Craig,

                              So......would you consider a "re-do" of the Foxtrots ?

                              I know that I can't leave well enough along.

                              Regards,
                              Marc

                              Comment

                              Previous 1 2 3 template Next
                              Working...
                              X