Record from a CD into the program

[Jan Myren]

ALSO; experimenting with the continous noise filter; see you reccomend using the "artifact suppression". have never tried that before. Do you also use sampling of noise ("noiseprints" from the outer groove on the 78-disc in this mode??

As you can see, experimenting AND learing!!

Hope you will answer the questions on this and the previous message...

Best regards Jan, NORWAY

[Craig Maier]

Quoting Jan:

"If I use the narrow crackle filter in the EZ impulse filter, may I then drop the median filter? May there be "overlapping" if I use both?"

The Narrow Crackle Filter is a different algorithm than the Median filter and will provide a different type of impulsive noise discrimination and reduction. So, using both filters is not a bad idea, but it is up to you and your sense of the sound quality that is being produced.

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Quoting Jan:

"AND; do you think it is enough just to choose "European 78's" in therecord type box in the "virtual phono pre-amp"? See in the cto 1000 manual that also the settings in the "parographic eq" is reccomended....._


I usually choose between European 78s or American 78s depending on what turnover curve is closest to the recording that I am working with. The users manual has detailed information on turnover frequency of 78s as a function of record label. Although the VPA only has two choices for 78s, they cover the range nicely. If you prefer to have a wider range of turnover choices, you can find more of them under the Paragraphic EQ. However, the 250 Hz and 500 Hz turnover are the most accurate when realized with the VPA rather than via the Paragraphic EQ.

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Quoting Jan:

"ALSO; experimenting with the continous noise filter; see you reccomend using the "artifact suppression". have never tried that before. Do you also use sampling of noise ("noiseprints" from the outer groove on the 78-disc in this mode??"

The artifact suppression mode works in a similar manner as does the normal mode. You still need to take a noiseprint. It offers the advantage of allowing you to apply more noise reduction (attenuation control and the threshold) without inducing digital artifacts. And, as I mentioned earlier, it also rejects analog Intermodulation that was on the original 78 rpm disc.

[Jan Myren]

Refer to my "sweeten up" multifilter that I use to do after I am finsihed with de-clicking and de-hissing. This multifilter-chain consist of: 1. graphic EQ (use the pre-set "high definition"), then 2. paragraphic EQ (where I have turn up the bass (100 hz to 12 - just as the manual page 51 - to get a fuller bass sound) and then 3. virtual valve amp. pre-set "purist 2". This enhance-multifilter helps to soften and sweeten up the sound a lot. BUT; does it matter in the running order these three fdevices are presented in the sound chain? I mean, should the vv. come before or after the eq's, or does it matter at all.

Jan

[Craig Maier]

Quoting Jan:

1. graphic EQ (use the pre-set "high definition"), then 2. paragraphic EQ (where I have turn up the bass (100 hz to 12 - just as the manual page 51 - to get a fuller bass sound) and then 3. virtual valve amp. pre-set "purist 2". This enhance-multifilter helps to soften and sweeten up the sound a lot. BUT; does it matter in the running order these three fdevices are presented in the sound chain? I mean, should the vv. come before or after the eq's, or does it matter at all.

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When one uses linear filters, sequence does not matter. Filters like the Graphic EQ and the Paragraphic EQ are linear and their position relative to each other does not matter.

But -

Filters like the VVA are non-linear and so its positon in a filter lineup does matter with respect to all other filters. The sound produced will be different depending on the VVAs location. One can argue what the ideal position would be, but that is another discussion. Just realize that the positon of the VVA will effects its sound.

Some other non-linear filters are as follows:

Dynamics Processor
Punch and Crunch Dynamics Processor
Impulse Filter(s) (any and all of them)
Continuous Noise Filter
Dynamic Noise Filter
EZ Clean
Time Domain Adaptive Filter
etc.

Some linear filters are as follows:

Median
Average
Low Pass Filter
High Pass Filter
Band Pass Filter
Brick Wall Filter(s)
All Graphic EQs
Paragraphic EQs
etc.

So, the rule is that order counts if ANY of the filters in the lineup is of the non-linear variety. If all the filters are ONLY of the linear type, order does not matter.

I hope that helps - - - I know that there are a lot of combinations to consider.

[Craig Maier]

My Multifilter lineup for lateral cut 78s is as follows (for my first step processing).

1. VPA (Virtual Phono Preamplifier)

2. EZ Impulse Filter

3. File Converter (Stereo to Mono, L+R)

4. Median Filter (3 Samples)

5. Bandpass Filter (50 Hz and 10 KHz with 24 dB/Octave Slopes)

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The next filter that I use is the CNF in artifact suppression mode. Lastly I use an Enhancer lineup similar to the one that you use. I have heard that a lot of folks like to use the EZ Enhancer rather than the method that you and I use. The advantage of the EZ Enhancer is that it not only synthesizes harmonics (using electron tube models), but it also has the ability to modify the average dynamic response of the signal.

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I must add the following note: The method that I use is just one of many that works well. It is just the one that I have chosen is based on my taste. Other lineups are equally valid.

[Jan Myren]

HI!

This is just great!
I will soon test out the EZ enhanser as well, but is very pleased with the virtual wave, since it has helped me a lot with giving "fresh excitement" back to recordings that may sound a bit "dull" after being processed. The only draw-back is that it also brings back a little of the hiss, but all in all it's quite acceptable:

The ONLY thing I do not agree with you in, is the use of the artifact suppression mode. I must admit I have experimented a lot, but for one or another reason I don't manage to get satisfied results. it seems that it is produced a kind of "tin can" sound that makes the whole thing sound worse. Therefore I work in the "normal" mode, BUT have started to use FFT size of 4096 instead of 2048.
I feel the results are better with 4096 for one or another reason I don't really know. Any comment?
Anyway I think the results using flat pre-amp and DC7 works well now and will just today start the production of a commercial released CD with 78's rpm tracks from the 30's, 40's & 50's tracks of Nordic pop music for a local record label. This will be volume 5 in this series, and the very first also working with the cto 1000. Totally it has been about 60 commerical CD using DC tools distributed through whole Scandinavia, the first one was released in 1999. Not bad, or what?

[Craig Maier]

Quoting Jan:

"The ONLY thing I do not agree with you in, is the use of the artifact suppression mode."

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Yes, a tin can effect will be had if you get too agressive with artifact suppression mode. You need to be careful not to use too high settings of the following controls:

1. Attenuation (I use it around 30 to 50 depending on the material).

2. Artifacts (I use it around 300 to 700 depending on the material, but mostly at low settings unless the material is very distorted.

3. Threshold (I use about 4 clicks above the sampled threshold.

Experimentation will allow you to find a group of settings that produce de-noising yet leaving the material intact without artifacts.

In summary (as with any of the filters in Diamond Cut) if you over do it, you can ruin a file.

[Jan Myren]

Checking out artifact suppression and more

HI!

Checking out this mode of the CNF. Also using the EZ enhancer instead of the Virtual valve.
Do the following routines:
1. Phono pre amp - from flat to "european 78's"
2. EZ impulse (60/60/60 - as you reccomended - and that's good!)
3. Stereo to mono
4. Multifilter: Median (3/0) and Band pass (50/10.000/24dB butterworth)
5. CNF - using "artifact suppression mode", noiseprint and various settings ("startets" Artifacts about 300 - Att: 30-50)
6. Enhance multifilter:

Made myself a "enhancer multifilter chain" that shall be runned after the CNF. That consist of: 1. EZ enh. (preset"audiophile quality") - 2. so the graphic eq (preset "high definition" - 3. so the paragrapic eq, where I have just lifted the green dot on 100khz up to 4.00, 5. so the Low pass filter (because a lot of noise is unfortunately brought back) (preset "steep 78 rpm surface noise suppressor attenuaror").

I must admit I have some trouble according to all noise that is brought back during the enhance process. May there be other and better ways to eliminate or reduce that noise than to "re-run" the low pass filter as the last stage??

Hope to hear from anyone!

Best regards
jan

[Dan McDonald]

Jan -

I think you are being too aggressive with the AS mode. I've gotten some great results with it, but sometimes it requires settings that you don't think will work. You may want to experiment with it a little more. If the material sounds hollow no matter what you do, you may want to go without AS mode. I usually try it first because when it works, it's amazing, but sometimes the material is just not right, and I go back to regular CNF.

I think it's always better to leave stuff in than it is to try to put it back.

[Craig Maier]

Jan -

Jan,

In addition to Dans suggestions, I have noted the following - - -

It can be tricky to enhance the high frequency portion of the spectrum when restoring 78s because of their high noise floor. But, I have achieved decent results with the following two systems:

VVA set for "Hi Noise" Mode and "Warm" and 12AT7 (use the tube of your choice - - - they all sound different). Adjust the threshold control until the green LED is modulating with the signal and then adjust the Mix control for a decent balance. Too much effect will give a "pumping" sort of sound. The correct setting will provide you will a modest improvement in the highs without introducing noise back into the signal.

The other system that I use is the Dynamic Noise Filter set for Enhancer mode and the freq set for around 3000 Hz. Adjust the threshold and the HF Gain for the most pleasing results without introducing breathing artifacts.

I hope that helps a little.