Diamond Disc Stylus Question

[Bill Anderson]

Hello -

I can attest to the quality of work that Expert Stylus performs for the collector community. All of my custom styli came from these people. They offer an impressive range of styli, conical and elliptical, truncated and not, meeting whatever dimensions you need. Thet offer a unique, high quality service.

That said:

I wish they would have a website but AFAIK they have never created one. I am not too sure if they even have e-mail(!!)

Not sure if they offer Stanton 500 styli 'off the shelf' - you may have to provide the stylus stock yourself or have it delivered to their company.

As a specialty service, the turnaround time can be a bit long.

Hope this helps

- Bill

[Jan Myren]

Styli for Edison Dioamond Discs - my documentations and experience

HI!

Here are my comments:
I alos use that Stanton 500 pick up and a range of different custom made styli, the same you refer to. Bought it form a now out of business company called "78 Archival Supplies" about 12 years ago, I guess. I still got all the old letters with correspondence, all sheets and listings from them that also contains the whole range of styli they had in stock at that time. According to styli for playback of Edisons verticals, the sheets tells that the coorect styli would be the 3.7 T or 3.7 types. BUT; when I ask spesific for the correct styli to buy I received a letter that tells:

" After consulting with an engineer at Rodgers & Hammerstein at Lincoln Center in New York (may it be Mr. Tom Owen???..) we have sent on his reccomendation the following for your vertical "hill and dale" discs:
a) 3.7 Edison Ball: this works better on Pathe's than Edison, so I have labeled it 3.7 Pathe on the invoice. You can also, of course try it on Diamond Discs.
b) 2.6T: This has been found to work well with with Diamond Discs and in adition is a good alternate stylus for normal lateral recordings (so you get two for the price of one!). In addition, this tylus is good for many rough starts as well as well as some Vocalion and brusnwick recordings with excessive noise. it doesn't work all the time, but when it does it is a "miracle worker". Yours sincerely Ricjard D. Markel (januar 24.1995)."

So this is what I have got; BUT at a later time I found this at the pages of a company called Esoteric Sound.
http://www.esotericsound.com/CartStyli.htm

They offer a stylus called rek-O-Kur D5130E, that is a 3,0 mil type. It says:
"This larger size is ideal for most 78 RPM records because it will play above some of the groove wear, while the elliptical shape compensates for the larger shape in the reproduction of highs."
BUT; most interesting, it tells to work correct on Edison Diamond Discs as well! There is a letter they refer to as well that confirms this. Just click on the link above and open the document dated from 1951.

WELL; this is all I've got on this subject and the correspondence I have kept in my files!

ANYWAY; myself I have used both this 3.0 and 2.6, but never the 3.7. Maybe I should???

Best regards
Jan Myren
NORWAY

[Jan Myren]

BY THE WAY; the spesifications on D5130E

...here are the spesifications for the Rek-O-Kut D-5130E from Esoteric Sound:

SPECIFICATIONS

Compatible cartridges: All Stanton 500 series, 700 series
Tip material: Diamond
Tip shape: Elliptical
Stylus dimensions: 3 mil X 0.5 mil (75 microns X 13 microns)
Tracking force: 2 to 7 Grams
Recommended discs: All electrical, most acoustic 78s, Edison Diamond Discs, some 16"
broadcast transcriptions

That's it from me, folks, any comments???
Jan, NORWAY

[Marc Hildebrant]

More Information...

Jan,


Thanks for the information. It's very helpful. I am quessing that the "T" on the stylus size means truncated ?

I'm finding that some people have had good performance with a stylus shape that you would not at first think was correct. For example, the 2.6T seems like it would not be correct for a vertical source as it would just pick up part of the groove wall...

Looks like there is still much more to learn.

Regards,
Marc

[Jan Myren]

Re:

YES, "T" means "trunicated". "E" means "eleptical". Some styli have both features. Before my favorite "all around" stylus was a 2.5 TE type, a real "workinghorse"!! Please share more of your experience with playback of Edisons, here are a massive lot of interesting things to learn!

Happy new year form NORWAY,
Jan

[Jan Myren]

Maybe?

Maybe Rick or Craig have some comments about this matter of what styli to use, since they have great knowledge and experience with Edison Diamond Discs, also according to CD-reissues....

By the way; what orchestra is playing on that little fragment on the music demo featuring on DC7. This sounds to be a really nice early tune. Maybe a Diamond Disc as well??

Best regards

[Craig Maier]

Hi,

That demo song is from an Edison Lateral Cut record and it titled "My Sin" by the California Ramblers. The entire song can be heard in its cleaned up state on our release entitled:

"The California Ramblers - - - Edison Laterals 2". It was cleaned up in 1994 using a very early alpha version of our DCArt software system.

As for styli, we researched that subject a long time ago and the results of that research are found in the users guide. However, those values are the ideal sizes and not necessarily the optimum ones to use on any given record. It comes down to how badly worn the record is in order to choose the best stylus to do the job. So, the styli shown in the users guide would be the ideal ones to use if you have a never played copy of a particular recording. I often find going up or down a notch (so to speak) produces the optimal results on my collection, except on the few 78s that I have which were never played on old heavy arm acoustical players. I also note that playing 78 rpm records with a modern tone arm does not further damage the record to any discernable degree.

I would guess that a 78 rpm record was good for around 100 plays before it was basically shot in the days where acoustical phonographs dominated the scene. I would guess that that same 78 rpm record could be played 500 times today with modern equipment with little wear added to the disc.

Craig

[Jan Myren]

Re:

OK, in the user manual, I guess you refer to page 340 and the 3.7 mil styli that the engineer at Hammersmith thought was best for Pathe's.
Anyway; I think it is a long way from the 2.6 mil that they reccomended, up to 3.0 as Esoteric reccomended and finally up to 3,7 that is recommended here. Is there really not even a "hint" of a near-to-close facit answer for a styli size reccomended to be used for playing a Diamond Disc record in relatively excellent condition???

Best regards
Jan

PS; sure that CD of the song will be ordered soon! Can it be bought through this site?

[Craig Maier]

Hi Jan,

All of my Diamond Discs happen to be in excellent condition and I simply use the stylus that is recommended in our users manual to play them and they sound just fine to me. I transfer them in stereo via a flat preamplifier and then used the file converter filter (stereo to mono L-R) to extract the vertical signal.

As for that California Ramblers CD, it can be purchased from our online store located at:

www.diamondcut.com

Craig